Pre-Flop Raises

Following are the highlights of a conversation from last summer about one of the more contentious issues in Hold 'em, the Pre-Flop Raise (PFR). WARNING: It gets kinda wonky.

Some good arguments in favor, but on the whole, I'm still against 'em.

ME:

When I first started playing, I rarely did them, did pretty well for a beginner.

Then: Read a bunch books, watched the videos, started following the pros' advice, raised pre-flop whenever the experts deemed appropriate, followed them up with continuation bets if need be...

Game went straight down the toilet.

All but cut the PFR's and am doing a lot better now (particularly in tourneys). The more I think about them, the less sense they make to me. I could expand on this and probably will in the near future, but for now I'll just put the question out there for my fellow poker players:

Do they work for you, or am I right in feeling like they kinda suck?

DOUG EBOCH:

I think they're needed when you have a big hand to get the riff raff out. I was in a tournament at Hollywood Park. I had 2-5 in the big blind. The player under the gun (who had just lost a big pot) called. Three other callers. So I of course checked my option.

Flop came A-3-4 giving me a straight nobody could have predicted. The player under the gun went all in. He had pocket aces. I knocked him out of the tournament and if he'd made even a moderate raise I would have folded pre-flop.

If you've got a big hand I don't think you want to allow a bunch of limpers in. Too easy to lose the nest egg!

MIKE BAUM:

I just don't think the 3x big blind is always effective in doing what it's meant to do -- and as Doug said, get the riff raff out. But generally speaking, the pre-flop raise is a good thing. But like anything else, it's all situational and position.

ME:

To be clear, I'm not saying it's NEVER a good thing to do, just that on balance, it probably loses more money than it wins. You're putting at least 3x the big blind in on a hand that could easily come up zilch on the flop, and then when it does, the onus will be on you to put in even MORE money (4 or 4 more BB's at least) for a continuation bet, just so it's not obvious that you didn't hit the flop...except lots of players will suspect it IS a continuation bet, so you very well might not scare anybody out, and now you've put in 7-8 Big Blinds on a completely shitty hand. And even if you DO hit the flop, you won't necessarily make much money (having pre-flop raised makes it a lot easier for the others to put you on a hand), and could even lose a big stack, depending how things go down.

The only three really strong scenarios for pre-flop raising (barring crazy-ass shit going down) are: a) Everyone folds to you pre-flop...So you won a few blinds at most; b) You get some callers, you miss the flop, you make a continuation bet, and everyone folds...so you won a few blinds at most; or c) You hit your hand really strongly on the flop, and someone else hits it slightly less strongly and doesn't put you on your hand. Which is i) infrequent, and ii) just as likely to win you a nice-sized pot even if you DIDN'T raise pre-flop.

Whereas...

If you generally call the BB (or call a raise, if your hand's good enough), a) Putting you on a hand is much harder, b) You've got a lot less on the line, and c) The onus is NOT on you to bet the flop. If you hit the flop, great: Let someone ELSE bet it, and you call or raise, and no one will be able to tell what you have. If you miss it, big deal, so you fold.

I guess my attitude toward hands have kind become like De Niro's in "Heat"; always be able to walk away. Much harder to do if you've PFR'd, and even harder if you've continued.

VAUGHAN:

First of all, I don't think you can talk about PFR's in one context, because there is position to consider, and quality of the hand itself. For example, PFRs with QQ and JJ is different than PFR with 6-3 suited, and the texture of each is different with position.

So, given all that, I'm going to use the latter here - and talk about 6-3 suited, which is one of my favorites, for purely random luck of draw reasons. I could easily be talking about 8-7, 5-2 or whatever - but this is essentially all small suited connectors - that have the advantage of probably being live cards, but the disadvantage of being of little equity if it comes to a high card showdown, or even pair v pair.

Now then, it's way different to do a PFR with these cards in first position than on the button, but for the moment, I'll ignore that, and we'll just talk about the PFR itself. The goal of the PFR in this case is misdirection. By raising with 8-7 suited, you are giving yourself 2 chances to win. a) everyone folds. b) you hit something people can't see. I think you've been arguing strongly against a), but neglecting how much money b) can net you over the long run. Your argument that you would get those big pots either way is not necessarily true. If you raise with 5-2, presumably the only callers you get are serious ones. If you limp with it, and hit your big flop, people may leave more often than not. With PFR, You'll crack Aces and get paid off big, or you'll lose 7x blinds and have to run away. Over the long run, the hidden stealth of your raise with low cards pays for all the run ins with big cards or misses.

And then there is texture to consider on the flop - this is key. This is everything. You don't have to continuation bet - you can play it however you need to. You can get away from 6-7. Or you can can raise big and represent. Now if the texture of the board is a single high card, like an A, then you can use that. If you get called by a pair of 9s in late position or a loose player playing Q10, and the flop comes with an Ace or a King - then your continuation bet looks solid. How can they call you? And if they do, can they really call your bullet fired on the turn? No. If the board comes all low cards, or suits not related to you, and they fire back - you can let go. The PFR is not the death of you at all - it is one aspect of the texture.

Now I have testing the PFR many times with 6-3 suited, trust me. I have played tourneys where I did and didn't do it. I have had most success by raising it - mostly choosing button late position so that, like I said, ppl fold or I can represent a big hand if I don't hit my suit or straight. However, every once and awhile, I have limped with it, mostly in the BB or SB, and I have hit big - and seen the side of the argument you are talking about. Wow - if I can hit big like that, why waste 3x all the time - just pay 1x and see where it gets me. Because, playing 1x calling all the time will get no one to fold, and then your wimpy hand must have equity to beat high card, which you know it does not. Then how much money do you have to spend to win that pot? Those 1x calls are throwing money away when we talk about PFR with small connectors.

If you raise 3x in late position with the small connectors, I guarantee you will make more, or lose less (both key in poker) than doing the 1x call all the time.

Continued in next post...